Posted by
CyberMom on Monday, May 18, 2009 1:54:30 PM
Waterboarding.. torture.. hmm...
Sure, it's wrong. Sure, it's justified. Sure it's... um, what?
Are we justified in resorting to the guerilla-style tactics of warfare to stop.. guerilla-style tactics of warfare? Are we better than our enemy if we act like our enemy?
Are we justified in defending ourselves when we commit the very acts which prompt our enemies to destroy us?
Yes - there is a rhyme and reason for terrorism. You may not agree. You may not like it. I don't. But, there is a purpose. They DO have an agenda, contrary to popular belief. Terrorists seek to harm others - creating 'terror' - because they have an agenda which justifies their actions. Whether it's religious, political or just hateful - it exists. Perhaps the Jihad are really out there to get us solely for religious reasons. In fact, if you read the article:
Why do Muslims Hate us?, you can see some reasons (right or wrong), why extremists would want to destroy America. Does that give them a right? Most certainly not. They have NO more right to destroy us, than we do them! However, our current political atmosphere regarding "waterboarding," is 'get them before they get us!'
Whoa. WHOA! Hold up - this is the SAME premise that I've been arguing against the extreme power granted to law enforcement in America - which is "get them before they get us!" That is why there are over 1 MILLION innocent people in prison. That is why there are innocent people in THIS country - the country of 'freedom,' and 'democracy,' being tried, WHILE you read this, for crimes they did not commit. Predictive punishments. And, man - fear can cause us to do a lot of things. But, here's the catch - if you listen to talk show hosts like Dennis Miller, without having been a victim of 'waterboarding,' himself, he LOUDLY proclaims it as so menial that it doesn't qualify as torture. He claims to the people that we MUST protect ourselves and HATE those people who strap bombs to themselves to die.
Maybe he's right..... Maybe. I'm not in possession of any 'great' or superior knowledge that would prove to me he's right - OR - wrong. What I am in possession of though, are my mental faculties. Maybe, we should waterboard American citizens who 'look' scary because they're more likely to hurt someone if we don't confirm first, that they don't? Sound too extreme for an example? Well - how about this:
You torture someone to confirm that they are not going to plan an attack (whether you have "intel" supporting it or not). You expect an answer, correct? If they continue to say, "no," you continue to torture them. If they continue to say, "no," you continue to destroy their very soul. If they continue to say, "no," you bash and hurt and deprive and manipulate and control and deceive and damage until you get the TRUTH!
But, what is the truth? Is it, "no?" Because, if it is - you just falsely tortured an innocent person, destroying them in ways that no human being who has not suffered through massive pains, political pressures or torture could even possibly comprehend. What if they say, "yes," but the answer is really, "no?" Now - you've MANIFESTED an answer that doesn't exist. Maybe, you'd do well to read this article on torture:
Star Trek Torture Episode. Maybe, just maybe, you might ask yourself - how far is too far. How much is too much? When is enough, enough? When are WE the enemy? Let's pretend for a moment, that the Jihad hate us because they believe - that if they don't stop us now, our soldiers, in THEIR country (notice that predicament?), are going to take over and destroy their way of life and harm them. Instead, we fight, we take prisoners and we torture them. Maybe the Jihad were wrong. Maybe they had no justified reason to hate us, and over time, they would learn that and we could all find peace. Or, just maybe, we have finally given them a REAL reason to hate us. Maybe we have just "justified" their fears. Just maybe... but are you willing to take that chance? Are you willing to make them so afraid and desperate that they will act irrationally? I'm not. I have a son. I do NOT want extremists to be pushed to the corners of fear that their only resolution is to come out swinging. Maybe they would still blow us up, someday. But, that's why we 'justify,' so much security in American borders, isn't it? Hmm...
Here's the problem - what if they ARE planning an attack and we COULD stop it? This is where shows like "24" have been carefully designed to convince the American populous that believe what comes through their idiot box to be assured of the fears the government wants to instill. We are shown that if we do not act predictively, we will suffer - our children will suffer. Really? Maybe so. Maybe if we don't torture every would be terrorist, extremist and person who's different from us, we are doomed! Of course, I'm not so sure that's the type of mentality that conforms to 'freedom.' Am I free if I live in fear? Am I free if I spend my time, my tax dollars and my life hunting ghosts? I thought "Homeland security," meant just that - homeland security. I thought that there were FBI in our air ports, police with excessive abuse authority, CIA and others who can freely monitor us because they were protecting us on the home front? In fact - weren't those folks there when 9-11 happened? Weren't those folks there when the Oklahoma bombing happened? Sure they were. Were they doing their jobs? YES!! Of course, the argument is that they didn't have the "freedom," they needed to do their jobs 'effectively.'
The freedom... to do their jobs... effectively?
You mean, the freedom to monitor ALL our communications. To watch us, look over us, control us, keep us locked down under the pretense of what appears to be... freedom. Oh sure - you radicals out there say things like, "Why don't you move to Iraq if you hate it here so bad - be thankful for what you have." But, YOU'RE the sheep. YOU'RE the one that voted for a President with a 3 trillion dollar budget - the majority of which goes to... MORE security. YOU'RE the one that has NEVER suffered, NEVER lost, NEVER been at the receiving end of the nightmare that is the so-called, "homeland" security. You can't see it. You can't know it. You can't even understand it - until it happens to you. Thes past two years I've met SO MANY people who are dumbfounded by the reality of what's taken place in my life. They can NOT believe that the legal system works the way it does. They can NOT believe the corruption. In fact - many of them have bore witness to it, through me, DIRECTLY - and yet, even with it in front of their OWN EYES - they can NOT understand HOW or WHY all of this is happening here in America!!
Move to Iraq? What a dumb response. I love America. I LOVE the principals upon which it was founded. My forefathers did NOT torture the English to see when and where they were attacking. My forefathers felt that it was time for a new, civilized society that protected itself the best it could, armed the common man even (not that I necessarily agree with that - and no - I don't own a gun myself), and believed in the ability of all peoples to seek freedom here. Were there extremists in their time? YES!! The Native Americans being raped of their land would raid forts and villages murdering and raping women and children! (No - that's not a blanket statement on ALL indians - only a commentary on the FEW who did it - just like the Jihad are not all against us - only the FEW who act upon it). There were soldiers and troops - people of THIS country who felt they had the right to do what they wanted in harm of others (ie. slavery), who raided and attacked innocents. This is NOT new. What IS new, is the 'civilized' America, resorting to uncivilized and monstrous actions in the name of FEAR. What's new are people so desensitized the brutal TORTURE of another human being, that they can somehow justify it.
Right or wrong, good or bad - I don't know. I'm not the final say on these matters. YOU are. YOU must think for yourself. But, if the torture of the Jihad, who hate us for infringing on their way of life (amongst other reasons), and feel they must get us before we get them, is justified under the premise that we must get them before they get us - what was so wrong about the torture of Jesus the Christ? Wasn't it the Jewish community that felt He was destroying their way of life? Weren't their actions of repeated ABUSE and torture predicated on the pretense that He must be stopped BEFORE He can derail their entire society? Weren't they trying to stop Him before He stopped them? What about Hitler? His generals (notice the distinction in WHOM at this point), tortured Jews because they felt the Jews were going to continue to derail and destroy their very society. Maybe, they were right. Maybe, if the Jewish community had continued unchecked, the Germany we know today would not be German, but Jewish, and the German lineage would be dead. So, a few extremists tortured the Jews to find out if they were planning an attack. Are you planning something? No. Are you going to raid our bases? No. Are you trying to undermine us? No. When is it okay? When must it stop? Are we NAZI Germany? Are we Crucifiers of the Lord? Are these fair comparisons, or are these too extreme for you? Do you justify torture under the pretense that you are caring for others? If so, why would you argue against the common person's right to bear arms, concealed and free. If it's their freedom and protection you're concerned about - in a proactive manner - why not permit everyone to keep guns? Then, they don't have to "wait" for the retroactive response by the police? In fact - you should support wire-tapping of everyone, cameras in everyone's homes, bathrooms, businesses, etc. That way - we can take the "extreme" act of torturing to the next level, and simply remove the "freedom," and privacy that was so "foolishly," Constitutionally invoked and simply protect everyone?
Or - are you acting upon a pretense told to you by the media and your government? Are you assuming because you've been lead to believe something? You see, I don't love America as it is now - I love America for what it SHOULD be. I LOVE this country for what it CAN be. But, a country is not a government. It is a people. And, it MUST be by the people that higher standards of living are demanded and supported. What do you believe America should be? Guerilla war tactics, torture and lies? Maybe if you believe that - YOU should move to Iraq - and live amongst those who believe that to be the foundation of their society - because it's NOT the foundation of THIS one!!